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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 19, 2014 23:51:32 GMT -5
So here we are, right now with 8 managers, in our brand new league. I've cleaned up the boards to reflect a fresh start.
First order of business is to get all GMs contacts into the GM Contacts thread. If you're not already in there, please post. Next will be adding any new GMs. I'm going to set a hard deadline of Sunday night for this. Whoever we have then will be who we go with. This weekend I'll set up a yahoo league for everyone to join, and then this week we can start a draft for our pro rosters. Yahoo will give us a random draft order, which we will use for the immediately following prospect draft.
Up until the draft, any rule changes you guys can suggest or think of will be considered and discussed, so please post your ideas in the Prospective Rules Changes Board.
Last but not least, payment is $50. If you paid from the prior league, just let me know and I'll refund you whatever you paid in excess of $50. I'd like to have all payment prior to the draft, so ASAP please. Please send payment to gorman.ja91@gmail.com on paypal.
Let's do this!
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Post by burnsy00 on Sept 20, 2014 11:35:04 GMT -5
I paid in the summer. For our old fee of $54-55? I can't remember but I can look it up if need be
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Post by burnsy00 on Sept 20, 2014 11:37:20 GMT -5
It was $56 US funds. I sent it From my paypal account.
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Post by MotorCity Warriors on Sept 20, 2014 20:39:55 GMT -5
I paid also, prolly $56.00 don't worry about the excess.
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 20, 2014 20:53:48 GMT -5
sounds like $56 was the amount. I'll refund those who are leaving and return the excess.
thanks guys
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 21, 2014 9:05:00 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
Looking forward to playing with you all. Would you guys be ok with going with Yahoo's standard scoring categories and weights? They basically use the same categories as the ones we're proposing to use with maybe a couple more for goalies but they give different values. I like getting more points per score (e.g. 4 points for a goal rather than 1) because I find it makes it easier to distinguish between players when looking at fantasy points per game. What does everyone think?
Cheers, Serge
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 21, 2014 16:16:11 GMT -5
just added a note regarding payment, forgot to say where to send it
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 21, 2014 16:21:35 GMT -5
also guys, if you didn't get an invite for yahoo, let me know and tell me what email address to send it to you at and i will do so asap.
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Post by MotorCity Warriors on Sept 21, 2014 19:33:30 GMT -5
I'm fine with what bro is proposing. I'd like to see all the scoring, where can I find it? thanks,
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 21, 2014 21:08:50 GMT -5
Here it is:
Goals (G) 3 Assists (A) 2 Plus/Minus (+/-) 1 Penalty Minutes (PIM) 0.5 Powerplay Points (PPP) 1 Shots on Goal (SOG) 0.4
Goaltenders Stat Category Wins (W) 4 Losses (L) -2 Goals Against (GA) -1 Saves (SV) 0.2 Shutouts (SHO) 5
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 21, 2014 22:42:02 GMT -5
I'm fine with what bro is proposing. I'd like to see all the scoring, where can I find it? thanks, Bro posted the yahoo settings*, however attached is the full list of what we currently have setup and can do for both scoring and goaltending. there's a ton of options and we can make them worth any value. IMO, i'd love to change PIM to hits and blocked shots, add PP points, and maybe add goals against, but don't want to force anything on us. Attachments:
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 22, 2014 8:02:33 GMT -5
It really all comes down to how much "research" you want to have to do when selecting players. I'm personally not a huge fan of tracking secondary stats like hits, blocked shots, FOW. I'd even vote to remove the shots on goal category since goal scorers are already getting a boost with Gs being worth more than As (which I like, for the record). Whatever everyone wants to do is fine by me though. I do understand that BS and Hits are a better measure of "defensive ability" than PIMs so I can see where you're coming from.
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Post by MotorCity Warriors on Sept 22, 2014 8:57:07 GMT -5
not to be rude, but whatever you guys decide on is fine with me. Its hurting brain with all the options. One thing I will say is I don't have much time for a lot of research.
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Post by burnsy00 on Sept 22, 2014 9:35:50 GMT -5
Lets just say yes to whatever is noted above or whatever and stick with it so we can all prep for the draft asap...
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 22, 2014 9:35:52 GMT -5
I would propose the following:
Skaters: G = 3 A = 2 PPP = 1 +/- = 1 SHP = 2 PIM = 0.3
Goalies: W = 4 L = -2 Sv = 0.2 GA = -1 SO = 3
Pretty simple, heavily weighted toward goals and assists for skaters so you don't need to get too in depth, basically the top scoring players in the NHL will be the top scorers in our league. Same idea for goalies, where goalies who a lot of wins and saves will be those who perform the best in the above system - in other words, good goalies in real life will be good goalies in our league.
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 22, 2014 9:42:49 GMT -5
i'd rather remove losses for goalies. i'd remove wins too, but i think we should have at least one of the two. also would like to swap PIM with hits. we can forget blocked shots. this would just modify the yahoo standard slightly.
burnsy makes a good point. let's finalize today so we can prep for draft.
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 22, 2014 9:49:35 GMT -5
i'd rather remove losses for goalies. i'd remove wins too, but i think we should have at least one of the two. also would like to swap PIM with hits. we can forget blocked shots. this would just modify the yahoo standard slightly. burnsy makes a good point. let's finalize today so we can prep for draft. allow me to elaborate. i don't want to put too much emphasis on W-L record for goalies, since that's mostly out of their control. i'm fine with just wins, but i think to have losses as well is too much. PIM are a negative in real-life, so i'd rather not use them as a positive category in fantasy and replace them with a better gauge of toughness--hits.
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 22, 2014 10:00:31 GMT -5
I'm personally ok with removing losses for goalies but I'd suggest having each W = 3 points instead of 4, just to keep goalie values in line with skater values.
I'm pretty indifferent toward the PIM vs Hits thing, whatever the majority wants works for me too.
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Post by burnsy00 on Sept 22, 2014 10:08:48 GMT -5
I am good with the above.
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 23, 2014 9:55:55 GMT -5
Are we going to update the scoring settings? I noticed that the league is still configured to the old setting
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 23, 2014 10:06:52 GMT -5
I can update now. We'll go with the yahoo standard, but remove L and PIM and add HITS
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 23, 2014 11:01:49 GMT -5
Here they are:
Goals (G) 3 Assists (A) 2 Plus/Minus (+/-) 1 Hits 0.5 Powerplay Points (PPP) 1 Shots on Goal (SOG) 0.4
Goaltenders Stat Category Wins (W) 4 Goals Against (GA) -1 Saves (SV) 0.2 Shutouts (SHO) 5
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Post by burnsy00 on Sept 23, 2014 12:46:07 GMT -5
If a goalie wins a 7-6 game he will get 4 points for the win and lose 7 points for the GA so will be -3 on the night?
Why not just have Wins= 3points, goals agains maybe like -0.2 just like the saves value, and leave the rest? Also, Shots on goal is pretty heavy...consider this:
Last season 2013-2014 Alex Ovechkin had 51 goals on 386 shots which converts to 153 + 154.4 alone for those two stats Joe Pavelski had 41 goals on 225 shots which converts to 123 + 90 for those two stats... which works out to OV @ 307.4 points for the two stats above vs Little Joe @ 213 points for those two stats. For me that is a huge difference and while I know that OV is a high draft choice in most leagues every year he was 2nd in goals scored and 8th in the scoring race while Little Joe was 3rd in goals scored last year and 9th in the scoring race. It is almost a 100 point difference though when you look at it.
Just my 5 cents worth. I think SOG should be lower but whatever works for the group is still fine by me.
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 23, 2014 12:54:19 GMT -5
Thanks Burnsy. My thoughts on both:
-A goalie that gives up 6 goals probably shouldn't be worth positive points, even if they win. Wins are out of the control of the goalie, similar to pitchers in baseball, and a relatively poor stat for evaluating goaltenders. I'm fine with their use in fantasy, but don;t think they deserve heavy value. I think here they are appropriately valued, as given by your example. If a goalie wins, but still plays poorly, they may be a negative.
-SOG is a big factor in puck possession and generating scoring chances, both of which play a large role in determining win/losses in the NHL. I too thought SOG might be a little bit heavy, but I think they are important and typically the more shots, the better, whether in fansty or real-life, since you score more goals the more you shoot. Pavelski had a much higher S%, which is why his case appears as it does in comparison to Ovechkin.
Let me know what you think Burnsy, and other please post your thoughts too.
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 23, 2014 12:56:01 GMT -5
Goalies would also get points for saves so a goalie who wins a 7-6 game but makes 20 saves would end up with 4-6+5 points which is 3... which seems about right.
I agree entirely with your point about shots on goal being too heavily weighted. I think they should be removed entirely since goals are already worth more than assists, so goal scorers already have an edge over playmakers. If we give points for shots on goal too, we end up with guys like Backstrom and Giroux being worth less than guys like Evander Kane and Pavelski, which is out of whack with reality.
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 23, 2014 13:07:21 GMT -5
Goalies would also get points for saves so a goalie who wins a 7-6 game but makes 20 saves would end up with 4-6+5 points which is 3... which seems about right. I agree entirely with your point about shots on goal being too heavily weighted. I think they should be removed entirely since goals are already worth more than assists, so goal scorers already have an edge over playmakers. If we give points for shots on goal too, we end up with guys like Backstrom and Giroux being worth less than guys like Evander Kane and Pavelski, which is out of whack with reality. However, those guys typically have higher +/- since they are also better defensively than scorers, so the lack of SOG is made up for there. Also have PPP and hits. playmakers and scorers will have about the same PPP. hits can go either way. Case study: Playmaker- 20G, 50A, 200 SOG, +/- + 20 Scorer- 40G, 30A, 300 SOG, +/- -5 I think those two profiles about summarize those 2 types of player. Based on our scoring, the playmaker would have 260 points, the scorer 295. To me, it then comes down to PP and hits. IMO, that difference is close enough to say it could go either way since exact player stats will be different than that and hits and PPP can make up for that difference. What do you guys think? Also keep in mind that if we were to decrease SOG, it'd hurt playmakers too. To make them more equal to scorers, you'd have to probably make goals be equal in value to assists.
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 23, 2014 13:13:34 GMT -5
Also keep in mind that if we were to decrease SOG, it'd hurt playmakers too. To make them more equal to scorers, you'd have to probably make goals be equal in value to assists. I'm fine with changing goals and assists to be equal btw. I think it's a smarter move than decreasing SOG.
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Post by Serge (Yak The Faulk Upov Me) on Sept 23, 2014 14:32:53 GMT -5
I like that goals are worth more than assists since they're harder to come by. At the end of the day, you basically want your set up to reflect real life, IMO. So you want players' actual values in real life to be similar to their values in the pool. Right now we're giving a lot of weight to hits and shots which aren't necessarily a reflection of a player's true value in real life. It would be interesting to run a simulation with our scoring categories and see how players rank, that may give us some perspective on how to tweak (if at all). Though I'm not sure how one would run a simulation like that. At the end of the day though, as mentionned before, I'm ok with leaving things as is now but also onboard with tweaking if many feel the need.
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Post by MotorCity Warriors on Sept 23, 2014 14:43:55 GMT -5
I like the scoring settings as they are now, for my 2 cents
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Post by Little Bacon (Commissioner) on Sept 23, 2014 14:50:05 GMT -5
Thanks bro and jwood. seems those who have posted have been okay with leaving it, although there is a sentiment to maybe change. i'm leaning towards leaving it for now and if it's a huge issue this year, we can change it next off-season. i don;t want to keep changing it while people are trying to prep for the draft.
speaking of the draft...i'm going to try to get randoms to join here and acquainted with the league tonight/tomorrow. there's also still a few invites oustanding (frenchman, blueorr, one other friend of mine), so i want to give them a little more time to respond. that said, i will probably make the draft be sunday, giving everyone most of the weekend to join/prepare.
EDIT: planning on making the draft sunday, not wednesday.
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